Curse

Rence · May 18, 2011, 09:12 AM // 09:12

I was reading this thread about ranger dps (though a bit dated, some skills have changed) to get some ideas on how to maximize dps on a ranger, although it seems no conclusion was really reached. So I was wondering if some vets could share some sample builds or ideas of which skills would be essential.

I assume these skills would not be considered:
- Barrage (spammable but more effective for AoE builds?)
- Incendiary arrows (low cost but damage spread between 3 targets instead of 1 single enemy)
- Sloth (good opener, but high energy cost & recharge time, and hard to fully/repeatedly use)
- Dual/Triple Shot (high energy cost, not AL ignoring and slow activation)

Skills to consider?:
- Penetrating/Sundering attack (fast activation and recharge)
- Crossfire (low energy cost, fast activation and recharge, and nearly always unblockable if a meleer is in the team)
- others?

Preps; Read the Wind vs. glass arrows?

Elite skill: Prepared shot (for e-management) vs. Expert's dexterity (for IAS) vs. Burning Arrow (potential perma burn but higher energy cost) vs. Glass Arrows (bonus damage)?

Pet: bring pet (put leftover points in BM) + Never Rampage Alone (if Expert's is not used) vs. additional bow skill?

My weapon is a Deldrimor Flatbow (zealous, +30hp)

Thanks, looking forward to your replies!

PurpleFission · May 18, 2011, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Elites: Glass arrows, prep shot, Experts dexterity.
My personal favourite would be prep shot, pen/sund + rtw. take iats and dodge this for more damage. Use a Hornbow for this build.

Miteshu · May 18, 2011, 02:55 PM // 14:55

For Triple Shot, I would combine it with Nightmare weapon for more DPS + heal.

Khomet Si Netjer · May 18, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

There is a lot of incorrect information in that thread from various people who ought to know better. I stand by my conclusions in post #170, and if math isn't enough to prove it then perhaps screenshots will. For any situation where you can hit 2+ targets, Barrage and Volley beat anything else hands down. See screenshots below and ask yourself how Glass Arrows, Burning Arrow, Melandru's Arrows, etc. are going to match that. Glass Arrows and similar are best for PvP situations where spikes matter, but in PvE I think Barrage/Volley will always win easily in terms of raw damage.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...t10481050.html

Also see Wenspire's ranger vanquishing team in this thread:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/e...t10473192.html

Amy Awien · May 18, 2011, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Pff, please stop bringing back old discussions and stop trying to push your point, more then a year after the thread died. Let it rest.

Anyway, single target damage took a hit when Asuran Scan got nerfed, but the builds are basically the same - they just lost 40% of their firepower.

It's a choice between AoE and single target, in some area's Barrage and Volley work well, in others single target. Experiment with the different builds, in combination with different H&H teams and see what you like best. You sound like you know your way around so above all ...

Have fun.

Chthon · May 18, 2011, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Khomet is correct.
The best DPS ranger build (which is still not good, just the best rangers have) is Barrage + EBSoHonor.

Premium Unleaded · May 18, 2011, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Could always just run daggers. That would probably get you better dps than anything a bow could offer consistently and with less hassle.

Skyy High · May 18, 2011, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Splinter barrage still does crazy massive AoE damage spikes. Micro a hero to put it on you for better results.

chuckles79 · May 18, 2011, 08:08 PM // 20:08

RTW+EbSoH+IatS then barrage. Micro splinter weapon, Str. and Honor/Judge's insight (or both for an undead hurt locker). Then stack on OoP, and have the necro use MoP (maybe even spinal shivers for additional hate with icy bowstring).

All of which is complete rubbish and pointless. Rangers can do massive damage for a short amount of time, then when the energy runs low (even with expertise) their DPS becomes THE crappiest in the game, even worse than paras.

The problem with rangers is that you have to base a team around them, and even the awesome physical damage that you pump out is gimped against valuable targets in HM.

As for the OP, I recommend crossfire for your utility spam shot, barrage for most PvE areas (switch to Glass arrows for sparsely populated areas) Bring 3 PvE only skills, 1-2 blocking stances and a rez. You can switch out a stance for an interrupt (because as good as heroes are they don't always interrupt the one that you want them too.)

Good Hunting.

Skyy High · May 18, 2011, 08:44 PM // 20:44

1) You run out of energy while running barrage? Ever hear of a zealous bow?
2) Most of the buffs you describe do armor ignoring damage. Basically the only damage that's reduced by armor in HM is the bow's base damage.

Cuilan · May 18, 2011, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I've grown quite tired of Barrage, so at the moment I'm using this on my ranger.

OgETcZsmRi14LEGkx41IXUrIGE

Khomet's first R/P Prepared Shot build in his wiki sandbox looks quite tempting, but its attribute distribution in Command is sad.

Khomet Si Netjer · May 18, 2011, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I've grown quite tired of Barrage, so at the moment I'm using this on my ranger.

OgETcZsmRi14LEGkx41IXUrIGE

Khomet's first R/P Prepared Shot build in his wiki sandbox looks quite tempting, but its attribute distribution in Command is sad.

It's set that way because Command is the least important attribute and investing more points into it gives progressively less benefit. FtW only needs to last a few seconds (at most) until the target is dead. I feel that the build is better off maxing out marksmanship and expertise but YMMV.

Xiaquin · May 18, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

As everyone knows, Barrage is entirely dependent on two things: a blob of red and splinter weapon. Without either, it loses much of its luster. On the other hand, single-target is always efficient, so while you wait for opportunities with Barrage, you can always snipe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuckles79

Rangers can do massive damage for a short amount of time, then when the energy runs low (even with expertise) their DPS becomes THE crappiest in the game, even worse than paras.

The problem with rangers is that you have to base a team around them, and even the awesome physical damage that you pump out is gimped against valuable targets in HM.

As for the OP, I recommend crossfire for your utility spam shot, barrage for most PvE areas (switch to Glass arrows for sparsely populated areas) Bring 3 PvE only skills, 1-2 blocking stances

Headache. Bow rangers generally don't have energy problems without spamming Splinter-Barrage, SA+PA without an energy management/skill/zealous bow, or Expertise is too low, OR PvE skills,

You don't need to base a team around them, either? Not unless you bring nature rituals that violate your team. I'd also like to see examples of paragon DPS that consistently bests rangers.

HM enemies actually fall pretty quickly with good builds. I did Destruction's Depths HM last night with my ranger team. Buff more if your damage is poor.

And I don't think I would call Crossfire (4s recharge) a spam skill. You also don't *need* blocking stances, you shouldn't be taking the brunt of damage, as a ranger isn't a priority target for enemy AI, especially provided you position yourself well (e.g. not between healers).

Personally, I use Needling Shot. Combined with the right skills and a vampiric bow, it's extremely lethal. Some will argue wait time, but if you have a party worth its weight it's not long between enemies falling below 50%, especially with one or two other attack skills.

The ideal of high, sustainable DPS on a ranged profession is bogus, so we should stop dreaming; it's not going to happen. Barrage is effective, but overrated in that if you can ball enemies up tight you've already won before you even start using skills.

Wenspire · May 18, 2011, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Barrage actually isn't a bad skill even vs. a single target. At 12 Marksmanship, it still provides a bonus of like +17 with a 1-sec cooldown and at the cost of 5en (before Exp factored in).

Energy with Barrage should be a non-issue if you are using a zealous string and ideally 13 Exp.

@Cuilan - I actually played around with a build similar to the one you posted. It's damage with Ebon Honor was quite respectable. The quick enemy scatter was the problem that led to me dropping the idea of using it.

I was playing around with this GlassArrow/ConjureFlame build for a while. It was great vs. single target before AsuanScan was changed. As is now, it adds +33 damage per arrow attack (with TripleShot it would be +99) and has a constant +33% IAS. Only problem I encountered was low-en issues at times since I could not use a zealous string. Pet was usually on heel, btw.

Build: OgYUoUbc3sS0G8gqivSPGtSwg2CA

Chthon · May 19, 2011, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I've grown quite tired of Barrage, so at the moment I'm using this on my ranger.

OgETcZsmRi14LEGkx41IXUrIGE

I agree with Wenspire, the scatter is a huge problem that ruins an otherwise great build idea. Woks acceptably in NM, but monsters scatter the instant you hit them in HM.

Mike Jack · May 19, 2011, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Why is anyone using turret skills? It's actually quite obvious to use Pin Down and then use Fire Storm to reign hell on the enemy trying to flee away.

Rence · May 19, 2011, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Thanks for all the replies!

While I don't doubt the power of the barrage build for AoE damage, I was actually leaning towards a single target dps build. Like others have said, I find that in general enemies don't always conveniently clump together to maximize the effectiveness of barrage. Also, strategically I prefer taking down single targets one at a time quickly than killing a group simultaneously.

I had thought about Barrage for use vs. single targets and even tested it (though not extensively). Although it was relatively sustainable, the dps wasn't as good. But that's probably because I didn't have the right combination of skills. I was wondering if a Prep Shot build would allow for sustainable damage yet also provide decent dps? The problem I see with GA, Expert's Dexterity or Burning Arrows is that I would eventually run out of energy after the first enemy even with a zealous bow (typically the case for me).

Khomet Si Netjer · May 19, 2011, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rence

Thanks for all the replies!

While I don't doubt the power of the barrage build for AoE damage, I was actually leaning towards a single target dps build. Like others have said, I find that in general enemies don't always conveniently clump together to maximize the effectiveness of barrage. Also, strategically I prefer taking down single targets one at a time quickly than killing a group simultaneously.

I had thought about Barrage for use vs. single targets and even tested it (though not extensively). Although it was relatively sustainable, the dps wasn't as good. But that's probably because I didn't have the right combination of skills. I was wondering if a Prep Shot build would allow for sustainable damage yet also provide decent dps? The problem I see with GA, Expert's Dexterity or Burning Arrows is that I would eventually run out of energy after the first enemy even with a zealous bow (typically the case for me).

Hi Rence,
I have noticed the same energy problem with Glass Arrows style builds and I found that Prepared Shot works very well, I have a sample build that might give you some ideas. The idea behind this is to get as many arrows in the air as possible, but instead of many arrows vs. many targets (e.g. barrage) this build is attempting to do many arrows vs. one target (triple shot, dual shot, forked arrow). This multiplies the effect of any buffs you have since they apply to each arrow. It also allows group spiking from Splinter Weapon since Triple Shot and Dual/Forked will trigger multiple hits of Splinter. Ranged deep wound is very nice for spiking, and if "Find Their Weakness" is not enough you can drop one of the other skills and take "Finish Him" as well. I hope this helps!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...#Prepared_Shot

p.s. Body Shot may also be useful... even if it is not convenient to apply cracked armor yourself you can put Weaken Armor on a hero, they like to spam it. @14m 13e body shot will give a net energy gain of 8e every 8 seconds... that is roughly equivalent to an extra 3 pips of energy regen. It's slightly less damage and slightly longer recharge than Prepared Shot but slightly greater energy gain as well as leaving your elite slot open.

Voodoo Rage · May 19, 2011, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Could always just run daggers. That would probably get you better dps than anything a bow could offer consistently and with less hassle.

It seems that way to me. You get your heroes set right (notably Strength of Honor on you AND a pet, Curses, Splinter Weapon, proper protection etc...), a R/A dagger ranger will make mobs explode like no one's business.

Chthon · May 20, 2011, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khomet Si Netjer

I have a sample build that might give you some ideas. The idea behind this is to get as many arrows in the air as possible, but instead of many arrows vs. many targets (e.g. barrage) this build is attempting to do many arrows vs. one target (triple shot, dual shot, forked arrow).

It turns out that fixed-attack-time skills are generally a better source of pseudo-IAS/packet spam than multi-shot skills because of the awful recharges on Dual and Triple.

Assume a flatbow with no IAS (for simple math, but the results should be the same for all bow types and IAS levels).

Just auto attacks gives you 0.5attack/sec.

Dual Shot + auto-attacks gives you 6 shots in 10 seconds = 0.6attack/sec which is +0.1 over autos alone.

Penetrating+auto-attacks gives you 3 attacks in 4.75 sec ~= 0.63attack/sec which is +0.13 over autos alone.

Add to that the fact that Penetrating has +dmg and AP, while Dual Shot has a damage penalty, and there's no question that Penetrating is better for single-target packet spam.

Unless you are realistically hoping to spike something from full health to dead with just Triple->Dual, then at least it has spikiness going for it.

Replacing Triple with Sundering is a closer question. Unlike Double, Triple does add more packets/time than Sundering/Penetrating (+0.2 attack/sec vs +0.13). The question (which I have not done the math on) is whether the +dmg and AP on Sundering/Penetrating is still going to result in more DPS.

Needling is also worth considering if it can be slotted.